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To ask the Secretary of State for Education, what information her Department holds on the number of schools that receive charitable funding to cover essential costs.

Asked by
Pippa Heylings (Liberal Democrat)
Answering body
Department for Education
Type
Written questions
Status
Answered
Date
7 April 2025
Reference
36467
House
House of Commons

I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1.

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c832
House
House of Commons

First, I am grateful to Members of both the Commons and the Lords who have so diligently scrutinised the Bill throughout its passage. Before I address the amendments tabled by the Lords, allow me to remind the House of why we introduced the Bill in the first place. This Government...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c832
House
House of Commons

I am not going to pre-empt any further decisions on this, other than to say that this represents an important and significant step forward. As a constituency MP, he, like me, will have heard from many small businesses—retailers, hospitality providers or leisure providers—who appreciated the support during covid, but were...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c833
House
House of Commons

The answer is that it is both, as I will go on to explain in more detail. It is an important first step, and the relief that is provided, funded through the higher rate properties, will be hard-baked into the system, notwithstanding any future support that may well follow, which...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c833
House
House of Commons

The Bill provides a cash saving for exactly the types of business that the right hon. Member talks about. We all understand the importance of pubs to our towns, villages and estates, not just as businesses in the economy but as places for the community to convene, to meet and...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc834-5
House
House of Commons

We welcome scrutiny through amendments and the insight that the other place can provide, just as we welcomed scrutiny in the evidence sessions and Committee sittings; it adds value. We need to be honest: it is natural for Members to want to widen the scope of legislation during its passage,...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc835-6
House
House of Commons

On a point of detail, the Minister says the Bill is a “first step”, so will there be further reforms, following these reforms, to the rest of the business rates system to meet his manifesto commitment to replace the current business rates system completely?

Member
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c832
House
House of Commons

The Minister has already said, as he has in previous speeches, that this is a “first step”, but now he says it is a “permanent” measure. I agree with him that business wants certainty, so it is important that businesses understand: is this now a permanent position that will not...

Member
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c833
House
House of Commons

I appreciate the points that the Minister is making. In Fareham and Waterlooville, we have some fantastic pubs, including the Golden Lion in Fareham, the Chairmakers in Denmead and the Heroes in Waterlooville. Many pubs are hubs of our community and make a valid contribution to the local economy, but...

Member
Suella Braverman (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c834
House
House of Commons

I did not intend to intervene, but I was looking through the amendments, and I see that a lot of them focus on exemptions from the business rates. Does the Minister agree that the way to look at supporting businesses in, for example, the manufacturing industry is through other means,...

Member
Chris Vince (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c835
House
House of Commons

I thank the Minister for his explanation of the Lords amendments. We shall not agree, and I will explain why. I thank the Lords for their careful consideration of the Bill; in particular, I thank the noble Lord Jamieson and the noble Baroness Scott for their scrutiny and amendments.

The legislation...

Member
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c836
House
House of Commons

My hon. Friend is making a very good speech. What is his advice to the many businesses in Fareham and Waterlooville who have told me—I have lost count of them—that they do not know whether they will survive the next few years, particularly because of the rise in national insurance...

Member
Suella Braverman (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c836
House
House of Commons

My right hon. and learned Friend makes a very good point. These are difficult times. As she knows, I was in business for 30 years, and we go through some difficult times. Many people think that business is easy, but it is not, particularly at times like this, when confidence,...

Member
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc836-9
House
House of Commons

The Bill is necessary to support our high streets. It strikes a fairer balance between small businesses and large, and I am pleased to have contributed during most stages of its progress. I rise to address some of the amendments put forward by the other place, which would reduce the...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c839
House
House of Commons

What would the hon. Gentleman say to businesses that are trying to make their numbers add up? In its manifesto and previously, the promise—the commitment—of the Labour party was to level the playing field between online giants and small businesses, but, as the hon. Gentleman can see, that is not...

Member
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c839
House
House of Commons

The Bill is designed specifically to revive our high streets. The hon. Gentleman will remember, because his party was in government at the time, that our high streets were struggling and suffocating, and it is incumbent on this new Government to revive them. That is why it is so important...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c840
House
House of Commons

I, too, begin by putting on record my thanks to the noble Lords in the other place for all their work on the Bill, in particular those on the Liberal Democrat Benches: Baroness Pinnock, Lord Shipley and Lord Fox.

Business rates reform is long overdue and, while we welcome the proposal...

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc840-2
House
House of Commons

Does the hon. Lady not accept that this Government won an election on the basis of a promise that we would introduce VAT on private school fees, so it is incumbent on us to deliver that manifesto pledge?

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

I am very grateful for that intervention, because I gently remind the hon. Gentleman that his party won the election with less than 34% of the vote. I cannot remember what the turnout was, but—

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

60%.

Member
Luke Taylor (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

My hon. Friend tells me it was 60%. I cannot do the maths quickly enough—clearly, I need to do maths to 18—

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

One in five voters—one in seven adults.

Member
Luke Taylor (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

There we go—basically, not many voters voted for Labour’s manifesto. I will happily let the hon. Gentleman continue to plough that furrow, because I have had that argument made to me before—for instance, in the petitions debate on VAT on private school fees just last week.

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

I am incredibly grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way again. The simple fact is that we have the electoral system we have, and it is incumbent on whomever wins a majority to deliver their manifesto pledges to govern the country. She may take issue with the electoral system,...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

I respectfully say to the hon. Gentleman that a rise in employers’ national insurance contributions was not in his party’s manifesto, nor was a cut to the winter fuel allowance, nor was the farmers tax, yet these are all things Labour is implementing.

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

rose—

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c842
House
House of Commons

Unless the hon. Gentleman wants to make a different point from his party’s manifesto, which was not voted for by many people, I will not give way, although I will pick up on another point he made earlier.

Clause 5, which implements the removal of charitable rate relief for private schools,...

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc842-3
House
House of Commons

The hon. Lady is absolutely right in what she is saying on private schools, and I agree with everything she has said on that point. Does she agree that as well as the damaging effects on children who go to private schools, this will affect children in state schools? In...

Member
Suella Braverman (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c843
House
House of Commons

I thank the right hon. Lady for her intervention. I am aware, from talking to colleagues, that there are real pressures on school places in different parts of the country. Clearly, that is where we will see a negative impact. In my own constituency and, indeed, across London, we are...

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc843-4
House
House of Commons

The hon. Member has been very generous with her time. On the points that she made about funds for state schools and about the other difficult decisions that this Government have had to make, does she not accept that when we came to power, we found an economy that had...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c844
House
House of Commons

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. Where we can make common cause is over the absolute mess in which the Conservatives left both our public services and our economy. I have no quibble in agreeing with him on that point. We Liberal Democrats set out a whole series...

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 c844
House
House of Commons

I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was simply seeking to address the hon. Member’s point. I am coming in to land now.

Time and again we see Government policy at odds with their stated objectives. They want to tackle NHS waiting lists but then slap business rates on to large hospitals...

Member
Munira Wilson (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc844-5
House
House of Commons

Programme (No. 2) motion. Agreed to on question. Consideration of Lords amendments. Motion to disagree with Lords amendment 1, discussed with Lords amendments 2-19 and Government motions to disagree. Lords amendment 1 disagreed to on division (316 to 183). Lords amendment 2 disagreed to on division (322 to 117). Lords...

Lead member
Jim McMahon
Department
Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government
Type
Debates on bills
Notes
Lords amendment had changed the title of the Bill.
Date
25 March 2025
Reference
764 cc832-869
House
House of Commons

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Member
Vikki Slade (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c397
House
House of Commons

Business rates reform is long overdue. It is frequently cited by my constituents as the biggest concern for their businesses’ survival and one of the most direct inhibitors to their growth.

I was contacted this week by a constituent from a local business in Three Legged Cross, right on the edge...

Member
Vikki Slade (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c399
House
House of Commons

One issue that the hon. Lady has not yet mentioned is the impact of the Employment Rights Bill, which will create further red tape for our high street businesses when it comes into play. Do the Liberal Democrats think that the Government should consider that? Changing taxes and rates is...

Member
Luke Evans (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c399
House
House of Commons

I agree that this is a difficult time for small businesses, with so many things changing at the same time—not least the increasing national insurance rates.

To return to the role of the high street, the most successful high streets are moving quickly to reinvent themselves. Since my election, I have...

Member
Vikki Slade (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c400
House
House of Commons

My hon. Friend is giving an impassioned speech about the importance of business rates reform. Does she agree that there is a risk of unintended consequences in what the Government are proposing? At the moment, the 75% relief is capped at £110,000, but when the relief goes to zero in...

Member
Daisy Cooper (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c400
House
House of Commons

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. One problem is the same law of unintended consequences that we have seen with things like the national insurance

increase—which, as we repeat over and over again, is impacting small businesses, hospices, doctors’ surgeries and things like that—when quite understandably, an attempt is...

Member
Vikki Slade (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc400-2
House
House of Commons

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak again on this Bill, having been part of the scrutiny process in Committee.

The Committee heard representations from a wide variety of experts in related fields, and I was heartened by the news that many experts felt that this Bill would have a...

Member
Adam Thompson (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c402
House
House of Commons

The hon. Member may have heard my earlier intervention. He is absolutely right, and I agree with him wholeheartedly, that we have to shift the burden away from small businesses on to big online retailers. However, that could be undermined if all we do is shift the burden on to...

Member
Daisy Cooper (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c402
House
House of Commons

I refer to Hansard for the discussions we had in Committee, but that did not come through in the evidence we heard. However, I respect the fact that the hon. Member has made that point, and I thank her for doing so.

As we heard from the hon. Member for Mid...

Member
Adam Thompson (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc402-3
House
House of Commons

Would the hon. Gentleman like to reflect on what he has just said, which is that the proportion of children going to private schools has stayed constant? Even the Government’s own analysis does not say that. It says that the number has stayed broadly constant, and in fact the proportion...

Member
Damian Hinds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c403
House
House of Commons

If I am incorrect, I stand corrected. My understanding from speaking to the experts is that the proportion has remained broadly consistent, but my apologies if that is incorrect. I thank the right hon. Member for his intervention.

The Committee stage reaffirmed what many of us on the Government Benches already...

Member
Adam Thompson (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c403
House
House of Commons

I intend to confine my remarks to two specific amendments—amendments 3 and 10, on private schools and special educational needs and disabilities—that would delay the introduction of this tax hike so schools have more time to plan financially.

Schools in my constituency have been punished by a series of tax rises...

Member
Sarah Bool (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c403
House
House of Commons

Will the hon. Member reflect on my comments a few moments ago about how the expert suggested that the Bill would have a marginal, negligible impact on the education sector?

4.30 pm

Member
Adam Thompson (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c404
House
House of Commons

That may be the evidence that you have received in this instance, but I am giving the real-life proof. When I spoke to the headteacher about this, she said that the increase in national insurance on teacher costs, which are about 80% of outgoings, in combination with all the other...

Member
Sarah Bool (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c404
House
House of Commons

My apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker; I would not dare say that about you.

If the Government are intent on punishing my constituents’ aspiration for the future of their children, the least they could do is grant the concessions that the Conservatives are asking for in all our amendments, and specifically those...

Member
Sarah Bool (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c404
House
House of Commons

My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head: there is a timing issue. The Labour Government were explicit and up front on this tax rise in their manifesto, but they claim that they care about children’s education and welfare. If so, why would they implement the change halfway...

Member
Luke Evans (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c404
House
House of Commons

I totally concur with my hon. Friend, who made the point powerfully. The impact goes beyond the 120 individual students to their parents’ arrangements and how they work. The headteacher of the school has a husband who was also a teacher, and they face a huge

impact in respect of...

Member
Sarah Bool (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c404
House
House of Commons

Will the hon. Member give way?

Member
Chris Vince (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c405
House
House of Commons

No, I will keep going if the hon. Member does not mind.

I do not want to see any other schools close or any other children suffer as a result of this plan. I hope that colleagues across the House will join Conservative Members in supporting our amendments.

Member
Sarah Bool (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c405
House
House of Commons

I am pleased to speak in favour of the Bill, which is a significant piece of legislation that aims to reform the non-domestic rating system in England. I welcome the Bill’s primary objective of creating a fairer and more balanced approach to non-domestic rating. By increasing the multipliers for large...

Member
Paul Davies (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c405
House
House of Commons

There are problems with all taxes, which is why we end up with a blend of taxes. For businesses, there is tax on payroll, sales, profits and property. However, business rates are a particularly difficult and unpopular tax because they represent a fixed cost on the business that does not...

Member
Damian Hinds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc405-6
House
House of Commons

My right hon. Friend is making an excellent observation on the impact of these costs. We know from the surveys that 75% of businesses will pass on the costs to the very people who use them. They will have an inflationary impact on the public. Does he agree that it...

Member
Luke Evans (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c406
House
House of Commons

As ever, my hon. Friend is spot on. In the end, there is no such thing as a tax on business—you cannot tax a business; you can only tax people. Any tax on business is ultimately a tax on its employees, its customers or its owners. Before somebody jumps up...

Member
Damian Hinds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c406
House
House of Commons

The right hon. Gentleman is giving an impassioned speech about the case for an overhaul of the business rates system. Why did the previous Conservative Government never get around to doing that?

Member
Daisy Cooper (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c407
House
House of Commons

Well, I did refer at the start of my speech to the calls over the years for reform. I also said that there are problems with all taxes we levy on individuals or on business and that is why we end up with a blend. What I am talking about...

Member
Damian Hinds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc407-8
House
House of Commons

Thank you for allowing me to take part in this debate, Madam Deputy Speaker. Having been a member of the Bill Committee—my first Bill Committee in this place—I appreciate being able to contribute on Report in the Chamber.

Southall town centre is well known the world over as a great place...

Member
Deirdre Costigan (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc408-9
House
House of Commons

I, too, served on the Public Bill Committee and would like to put on record my thanks to all the witnesses who attended and gave evidence.

The Bill shines a light on how politics is about choices. At the general election, we promised a Labour Government that would make different choices:...

Member
Sureena Brackenridge (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc409-410
House
House of Commons

Conservative Members do not like to be reminded of the fact that six months ago our Labour Government inherited a £22 billion black hole from their 14 years of

Tory rule—[Interruption]—as they are demonstrating now. It is, however, a fact. With that inheritance from the Tories, our new Government are...

Member
Melanie Ward (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc410-1
House
House of Commons

I absolutely agree that we need to make sure that there is equity in education. The hon. Lady says that those with the broadest shoulders will carry the burden, but I have a family in Berkhamsted who worked really hard to put their son into private education. Following the changes,...

Member
Victoria Collins (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c411
House
House of Commons

All parents work hard to support their families, and all parents want the very best for their children. Hon. Members would do well to remember that.

The additional £1.8 billion a year, which will be raised by ending tax breaks for private schools, allows us to increase per-pupil funding in real...

Member
Melanie Ward (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c412
House
House of Commons

I am grateful for this opportunity to speak in favour of this Bill, having been involved in its scrutiny at most of its stages. I join my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East (Mrs Brackenridge) in thanking all the witnesses who came forward to give evidence to the...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc412-3
House
House of Commons

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that there is a challenge in making sure that things are fair, and we all support a level playing field between the online world and bricks-and-mortar businesses, including in our town centres. There is a thing called the digital services tax, which was...

Member
Damian Hinds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c413
House
House of Commons

I return to the point I made earlier. We know that we have to support these smaller businesses—these bricks-an-mortar businesses, as the right hon. Gentleman calls them—and the only way we are going to pay for this is by finding the money from elsewhere. We have chosen to cut business...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c413
House
House of Commons

The hon. Member will recognise that it is the Government’s intention to reduce business rates for the smallest businesses, but as I have mentioned a couple of times in this debate, House of Commons Library research shows that if we compare this year to two years’ time, small businesses will...

Member
Daisy Cooper (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c413
House
House of Commons

I am grateful to the hon. Member for that contribution. Of course I have read the House of Commons Library research into this. I also took time to listen to all the witnesses who came forward in the Bill Committee, and they made it clear that the changes in this...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c414
House
House of Commons

rose—

Member
Daisy Cooper (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c414
House
House of Commons

I will move on to the next part of my speech, but I am happy to take any further interventions that might be relevant to that point. I am going to talk about the amendments now.

I think new clauses 1 to 3 are unnecessary. The Government will monitor the effects...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c414
House
House of Commons

The hon. Gentleman mentions leisure businesses, and I have been contacted by several soft play facilities. They talk about the importance of play to children’s wellbeing, but they are not sure whether they will be entitled to the lower rate. Even Parliament’s experts are not sure. Will the hon. Gentleman...

Member
Victoria Collins (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c414
House
House of Commons

Yes, it would be helpful if the Minister could provide clarity. As someone who uses soft play—[Laughter.] Not personally, enjoyable though it is. I am sure that my sons Oscar and Arthur, who is six months old and not quite ready to take advantage of soft play, will also be...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc414-5
House
House of Commons

It is worth reflecting that the education budget goes up every year. It does not go up because there has been a change to business rates, VAT or anything else, which is the logic we sometimes hear from Labour Members. If the revenue from those things is slightly smaller than...

Member
Damian Hinds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c415
House
House of Commons

I heard the right hon. Gentleman put that question to the Minister in last Monday’s Westminster Hall debate but, just to go back to his original point—I will come to the 6,500 new teachers—we are deliberately taking these decisions in order to increase the amount of money that state schools...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c415
House
House of Commons

Talking of basic principles, does the hon. Gentleman therefore believe it is right to tax education—yes or no?

5.15 pm

Member
Luke Evans (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c415
House
House of Commons

I believe it is right to tax businesses. Private schools are businesses, and we are choosing to levy the tax on businesses. We are not choosing to levy the tax on state education, because as I was just setting out, it is imperative on us to make sure there is...

Member
Mark Sewards (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc415-6
House
House of Commons

As I have about two hours to give this speech, I want to start by going back to the summer of 1983—[Laughter.] I have just told everyone how old I am, have I not?

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to speak in this debate. I also thank the...

Member
Chris Vince (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc416-7
House
House of Commons

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Member
Sarah Bool (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c417
House
House of Commons

Yes, I certainly have the time.

Member
Chris Vince (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c417
House
House of Commons

The hon. Gentleman mentioned that private schools could absorb the cost. The headteacher of my Carrdus school told me that they could not absorb the cost. The school has tried everything possible to stay open, but it cannot. One just cannot make this claim that these schools can absorb the...

Member
Sarah Bool (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c417
House
House of Commons

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. Having spoken to headteachers in private schools, I know that that is what some of them are looking to do. I recognise that may not be the case in that situation. As I said on Second Reading, ultimately, we want all schools...

Member
Chris Vince (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c417
House
House of Commons

Does the hon. Gentleman think that universities are companies? If he does, would he advocate imposing VAT on fees for university education?

Member
Blake Stephenson (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c417
House
House of Commons

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, but I think that we have had a very good debate on higher education today. It is interesting that Conservative Members want to talk about university and higher education when it is in an awful state. Clearly, we need to look at...

Member
Chris Vince (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c417
House
House of Commons

It appears that the attraction of business rates has not been sufficient to draw as many speakers to the Chamber as some debates, but I am none the less grateful to all Members for their contributions to today’s debate.

Just a few months ago, we exposed a £2.4 billion black hole...

Member
David Simmonds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc418-9
House
House of Commons

We have heard categorically from Labour that private schools are businesses. They see themselves as part of the community and as charities.

Now that they are seen as businesses, they will act as businesses and will have to look to raise revenue from all their sports facilities and anything else...

Member
Luke Evans (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c419
House
House of Commons

My hon. Friend highlights a point that many of us will have heard from our local state schools: the fact that they are in sharing arrangements with private schools to access facilities. They are concerned that, as the cost drivers introduced by the Government and the Budget increase the pressure...

Member
David Simmonds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c420
House
House of Commons

I had a meeting with a state school in my constituency that said the changes will be damaging because it gets a grant from a private school, which will have to be cut to deal with the impact of VAT. That state school, which is in a genuinely working-class community,...

Member
Lewis Cocking (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c420
House
House of Commons

I agree that it is terrible, but sadly it is typical of the consequences introduced into the system by the actions of the Government.

Member
David Simmonds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c420
House
House of Commons

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that state schools should not have to go with a begging bowl to private schools to ask to borrow their facilities? They should be properly funded in their own right.

Member
Melanie Ward (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c420
House
House of Commons

Having served as a governor in three different state schools during my local government career, I know that many state schools have facilities that they are very happy to share—some have swimming pools, some have libraries, some have adult education facilities. The sharing of facilities among schools of all kinds...

Member
David Simmonds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc420-2
House
House of Commons

The Minister has been here throughout the debate, and he will have heard a number of my interventions. I accept his point that those figures will not be published until Budget 2025. May I ask if he is in a position to give a cast-iron guarantee that small independents, with...

Member
Daisy Cooper (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c423
House
House of Commons

I completely accept that point, and I am very sympathetic to the fact that the Minister inherited a sticking-plaster system from the previous Government. If during the course of this year his Government’s own analysis proves what I have discovered from the House of Commons Library research, will he ensure...

Member
Daisy Cooper (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c423
House
House of Commons

I appreciate the Minister’s point, but clearly no Parliament binds its successors, so every Parliament must make its own decisions. A lot of Members have asked about small business rate relief. It would be helpful to have some certainty from the Dispatch Box about the Government’s intentions on that. Can...

Member
David Simmonds (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c424
House
House of Commons

Will the Minister give way?

Member
Richard Tice (Reform UK)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c425
House
House of Commons

I thank the Minister, and indeed my shadow Ministers, the other Opposition spokespeople and all parliamentarians who have helped with the passage of the Bill, as well as the Clerks and officials—not that I would like to see the Bill progress any further. Aristotle, in his book “Politics”, over 2,000...

Member
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c441
House
House of Commons

Over 2,000 years ago, Aristotle talked about deviant government. Alongside tyranny, he placed democracy. He said the risk is that, sooner or later, a Government will come along who represent only their own interests and those of their supporters, and that that Government will pursue the politics of envy. Let...

Member
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc441-2
House
House of Commons

Before I speak to the amendments tabled by the hon. Members for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Vikki Slade), for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) and for St Albans (Daisy Cooper), I thank Members from across the Chamber for their contributions and for the constructive spirit, by and large,...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 cc422-3
House
House of Commons

I did hear the hon. Lady, and I think we all accept the principle of needing to target or get support to those important small businesses, which we can all identify in our constituencies. With respect, I think there was a degree of conflation with the temporary reliefs brought in...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c423
House
House of Commons

As with all tax policies, we will keep this under review, and I say that in a very general sense. We absolutely believe that the businesses that are the backbone of our high streets, town centres and communities would, were it not for these measures, go bust. They would not...

Member
Jim McMahon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
15 January 2025
Reference
760 c423
House
House of Commons