Is my hon. Friend basically saying that there is no way we can legislate for unforeseen circumstances? Does it strike him as somewhat ironic that the very reason why we are having this debate in the first place is that the Government did not see the recession coming?

Is my hon. Friend basically saying that there is no way we can legislate for unforeseen circumstances? Does it strike him as somewhat ironic that the very reason why we are having this debate in the first place is that the Government did not see the recession coming?

I am going to help the Minister to move on. I agree that the Government seem to have listened to some of the discussions that took place in Committee. I give credit to the Minister, who is a pleasure to work with because he does not always follow the line...

I am going to help the Minister to move on. I agree that the Government seem to have listened to some of the discussions that took place in Committee. I give credit to the Minister, who is a pleasure to work with because he does not always follow the line...

No. The carrot comes before the stick. New clause 11 stands, somewhat incongruously, at the centre of our present debate. As the Minister said earlier, and notwithstanding my complaints about the shortage of time, the Government have taken account of a number of points that were raised by Members on...

No. The carrot comes before the stick. New clause 11 stands, somewhat incongruously, at the centre of our present debate. As the Minister said earlier, and notwithstanding my complaints about the shortage of time, the Government have taken account of a number of points that were raised by Members on...

Let me begin by giving the Minister some support.

Let me begin by giving the Minister some support.

As there is a coalition in Wales between Labour and Plaid Cymru, what does the hon. Gentleman imagine the position in Wales will be when they consider the outcome of this proposed legislation? Does he think Labour Members there will be persuaded by the arguments put here to reject new...

As there is a coalition in Wales between Labour and Plaid Cymru, what does the hon. Gentleman imagine the position in Wales will be when they consider the outcome of this proposed legislation? Does he think Labour Members there will be persuaded by the arguments put here to reject new...

None.

None.

I hope that you will bear with me, Mr. Speaker, while I make my final procedural point about the timing. The Minister must accept that we have a ludicrously short time in which to discuss an enormous number of amendments, as I am sure the spokesperson for the official Opposition...

I hope that you will bear with me, Mr. Speaker, while I make my final procedural point about the timing. The Minister must accept that we have a ludicrously short time in which to discuss an enormous number of amendments, as I am sure the spokesperson for the official Opposition...

Does my hon. Friend therefore agree that it was ironic that the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr. Raynsford) promoted the Government's legislative direction as improving competition? In fact, it will remove the democratic competition that my hon. Friend has just described. We will end up with a...

Does my hon. Friend therefore agree that it was ironic that the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr. Raynsford) promoted the Government's legislative direction as improving competition? In fact, it will remove the democratic competition that my hon. Friend has just described. We will end up with a...

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Perhaps the Minister is getting some sense of the cross-party concern on this matter. Even if he were to close his ears to hon. Members—he is not the sort of Minister to do that—he would need to remember that the Government themselves have...

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Perhaps the Minister is getting some sense of the cross-party concern on this matter. Even if he were to close his ears to hon. Members—he is not the sort of Minister to do that—he would need to remember that the Government themselves have...

Indeed. As the hon. Member for North-West Leicestershire—a Labour Member—points out, on the basis of the real figures, I was being 10 times too generous. I was blaming the Minister for only a tenth of the problem for which he is partly responsible, albeit not personally. Despite my concerns about...

Indeed. As the hon. Member for North-West Leicestershire—a Labour Member—points out, on the basis of the real figures, I was being 10 times too generous. I was blaming the Minister for only a tenth of the problem for which he is partly responsible, albeit not personally. Despite my concerns about...

The Minister violently agrees with that assessment. My hon. Friend, in common with others who have spoken, has made it quite clear that the Bill's provisions will make things even worse. It amounts to taking money away from less wealthy areas and giving it to what can easily be perceived...

The Minister violently agrees with that assessment. My hon. Friend, in common with others who have spoken, has made it quite clear that the Bill's provisions will make things even worse. It amounts to taking money away from less wealthy areas and giving it to what can easily be perceived...

I am sorry, I should have said that I will not let the Conservative party off the hook. The hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) has set out the condition that would have to be fulfilled if the Conservatives were to support new clause 8 —namely the evidence that the...

I am sorry, I should have said that I will not let the Conservative party off the hook. The hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) has set out the condition that would have to be fulfilled if the Conservatives were to support new clause 8 —namely the evidence that the...

I do not want to enter into a dialogue, but I cannot let the Opposition off the hook. [Hon. Members: ““Go on.””] Oh no, I will not.

I do not want to enter into a dialogue, but I cannot let the Opposition off the hook. [Hon. Members: ““Go on.””] Oh no, I will not.

The hon. Gentleman may have forgotten that, two weeks ago—this was mentioned in the debate—the pilot indicated that the fund was underfunded by 43 per cent. He is waiting for information that has already been published so, in the light of that fact, he can agree with new clause 8.

The hon. Gentleman may have forgotten that, two weeks ago—this was mentioned in the debate—the pilot indicated that the fund was underfunded by 43 per cent. He is waiting for information that has already been published so, in the light of that fact, he can agree with new clause 8.

I offer the Under-Secretary a deal—I am not playing games with him. I do not believe that the Government amendments do what he set out. If, on the basis of impartial legal advice after the debate, the amendments do not achieve what he says, will he commit to introducing a...

I offer the Under-Secretary a deal—I am not playing games with him. I do not believe that the Government amendments do what he set out. If, on the basis of impartial legal advice after the debate, the amendments do not achieve what he says, will he commit to introducing a...

To finish the sentence, ““not press the amendments.”” I would love to comply, but I want clarification of some practical matters. The Under-Secretary says that Government amendments Nos. 40 and 42 would achieve the same outcome as amendments Nos. 14 and 15. That means that he believes explicitly that it...

To finish the sentence, ““not press the amendments.”” I would love to comply, but I want clarification of some practical matters. The Under-Secretary says that Government amendments Nos. 40 and 42 would achieve the same outcome as amendments Nos. 14 and 15. That means that he believes explicitly that it...

The Minister is right to spend time on this, because it is one of the key elements in the Bill. Can he confirm that he believes—he must, I suppose—that if new clauses 1 and 8 are not passed, we will build more houses than we would if they were passed?...

The Minister is right to spend time on this, because it is one of the key elements in the Bill. Can he confirm that he believes—he must, I suppose—that if new clauses 1 and 8 are not passed, we will build more houses than we would if they were passed?...

I understand that the Under-Secretary is saying that we will have a statutory instrument Committee, if, on the basis of an impartial conversation with lawyers and probably London Councils, we decide that the Government amendments do not achieve what he said. I am grateful for that assurance—the Under-Secretary has taken...

I understand that the Under-Secretary is saying that we will have a statutory instrument Committee, if, on the basis of an impartial conversation with lawyers and probably London Councils, we decide that the Government amendments do not achieve what he said. I am grateful for that assurance—the Under-Secretary has taken...

How did the hon. Gentleman feel when he heard the hon. Member for Poole (Mr. Syms)—a Conservative Member of Parliament—trying to persuade a Labour Minister to adhere to Labour party policy?

How did the hon. Gentleman feel when he heard the hon. Member for Poole (Mr. Syms)—a Conservative Member of Parliament—trying to persuade a Labour Minister to adhere to Labour party policy?

That would mean an increase of 239,840 a year on what is being built at the moment. Hon. Members should not worry; we have not got the time to have that argument at the moment. The Minister mentioned amendment No. 229. Under normal circumstances, I would have pressed it to...

That would mean an increase of 239,840 a year on what is being built at the moment. Hon. Members should not worry; we have not got the time to have that argument at the moment. The Minister mentioned amendment No. 229. Under normal circumstances, I would have pressed it to...