I find those distinctions untenable. A corporate body that builds and tests aircraft, often at the limits of technology, is working in a difficult environment that may be threatening to an employee flying the aircraft. The company faces the possibility of being charged with corporate manslaughter if it is grossly...

I find those distinctions untenable. A corporate body that builds and tests aircraft, often at the limits of technology, is working in a difficult environment that may be threatening to an employee flying the aircraft. The company faces the possibility of being charged with corporate manslaughter if it is grossly...

As the Minister knows, we looked at the issue in respect of the armed forces in some detail in Committee, and it is not an easy one. I found the Minister’s arguments more persuasive in that context, precisely because the armed forces consist of volunteers who have elected to work...

As the Minister knows, we looked at the issue in respect of the armed forces in some detail in Committee, and it is not an easy one. I found the Minister’s arguments more persuasive in that context, precisely because the armed forces consist of volunteers who have elected to work...

I am sorry to have to chide the Minister a little—I have not done it much this evening—but it is regrettable that the time available for Report will clearly be massively insufficient. The Bill was carried over, so if the Minister required more time to deal with outstanding issues before...

I am sorry to have to chide the Minister a little—I have not done it much this evening—but it is regrettable that the time available for Report will clearly be massively insufficient. The Bill was carried over, so if the Minister required more time to deal with outstanding issues before...

I echo the Minister’s sentiments in wishing the Bill a good passage. Although I said on Second Reading that there might be another way to approach the problem, I always accepted that the Government’s approach had validity. Once I had, not altogether to my surprise, failed in Committee to persuade...

I echo the Minister’s sentiments in wishing the Bill a good passage. Although I said on Second Reading that there might be another way to approach the problem, I always accepted that the Government’s approach had validity. Once I had, not altogether to my surprise, failed in Committee to persuade...

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I do not have the precise figures, but that ties in with my recollection. We are not talking about one or two such cases a decade. There is a consistent pattern of suicide in prison, for which no blame...

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I do not have the precise figures, but that ties in with my recollection. We are not talking about one or two such cases a decade. There is a consistent pattern of suicide in prison, for which no blame...

Let me make my position clear. I believe that the Prison Service does its best in often difficult circumstances and, of course, it often has custody of people who are mentally unstable or who have personality disorders. I know from visiting prisons that that can be an extremely difficult matter....

Let me make my position clear. I believe that the Prison Service does its best in often difficult circumstances and, of course, it often has custody of people who are mentally unstable or who have personality disorders. I know from visiting prisons that that can be an extremely difficult matter....

As the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) will be aware, the official Opposition and others have signed his amendment No. 3. In addition, we have tabled amendment No. 16. There is a minor difference from the wording of the hon. Gentleman’s amendment, but it clearly states that the Bill...

As the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) will be aware, the official Opposition and others have signed his amendment No. 3. In addition, we have tabled amendment No. 16. There is a minor difference from the wording of the hon. Gentleman’s amendment, but it clearly states that the Bill...

I regret slightly the fact that the Minister and I are disagreeing when a disagreement does not really exist. I have never suggested that there is a massive problem with our prison system whereby a large number of people are dying unnecessarily. However, 15 preventable deaths—if we can now agree...

I regret slightly the fact that the Minister and I are disagreeing when a disagreement does not really exist. I have never suggested that there is a massive problem with our prison system whereby a large number of people are dying unnecessarily. However, 15 preventable deaths—if we can now agree...

I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby and Kenilworth (Jeremy Wright).

I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby and Kenilworth (Jeremy Wright).

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. I find the Government’s defensiveness on this issue curious. Let us be clear: I very much hope that a time will come when my own party is in government. I have no idea where my destiny will be—it might be the Back Benches...

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. I find the Government’s defensiveness on this issue curious. Let us be clear: I very much hope that a time will come when my own party is in government. I have no idea where my destiny will be—it might be the Back Benches...

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, and it is also worth pointing out that public policy decisions have the protection of clause 3. This is no different from any other area of Government activity. It is for the Minister and the Government to make the case why this extraordinary exemption...

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, and it is also worth pointing out that public policy decisions have the protection of clause 3. This is no different from any other area of Government activity. It is for the Minister and the Government to make the case why this extraordinary exemption...

I am listening to the hon. Gentleman with care, and I understand where he is coming from. The fact remains, however, that the Bill deals with corporate manslaughter attracting a sentence of imprisonment. Is he saying that he wants a fining regime against directors who may be linked to such...

I am listening to the hon. Gentleman with care, and I understand where he is coming from. The fact remains, however, that the Bill deals with corporate manslaughter attracting a sentence of imprisonment. Is he saying that he wants a fining regime against directors who may be linked to such...

Someone who aids, abets, counsels or procures a manslaughter has committed manslaughter, which is an imprisonable offence. The hon. Gentleman is diminishing the gravity of that by saying that it could be visited with a fine. If that was a fine on directors or officers of a company for failures...

Someone who aids, abets, counsels or procures a manslaughter has committed manslaughter, which is an imprisonable offence. The hon. Gentleman is diminishing the gravity of that by saying that it could be visited with a fine. If that was a fine on directors or officers of a company for failures...

May I take the hon. Gentleman back? He says he supports amendments Nos. 7 and 8, but all they appear to do is to leave open the possibility that an individual can be convicted. They do not deal with what will happen to the individual on conviction. Am I to...

May I take the hon. Gentleman back? He says he supports amendments Nos. 7 and 8, but all they appear to do is to leave open the possibility that an individual can be convicted. They do not deal with what will happen to the individual on conviction. Am I to...

I am aware of that but, equally, may I point out that I have represented a director who was successfully prosecuted? In fairness, he pleaded guilty to the offence, but there are examples of such cases. The Health and Safety Executive may have to become more proactive, but the material...

I am aware of that but, equally, may I point out that I have represented a director who was successfully prosecuted? In fairness, he pleaded guilty to the offence, but there are examples of such cases. The Health and Safety Executive may have to become more proactive, but the material...

Section 37 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act allows such prosecutions. If the hon. Member for Hendon is right that the measure will prevents health and safety at work prosecutions under that Act, I accept that there could be a problem. The key point, however, is that...

Section 37 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act allows such prosecutions. If the hon. Member for Hendon is right that the measure will prevents health and safety at work prosecutions under that Act, I accept that there could be a problem. The key point, however, is that...

I do not disagree with the hon. Gentleman about attacking the culture. Having spent a lot of my professional life prosecuting for the Health and Safety Executive, I am perfectly conscious that one can come across examples of very bad safety culture, pervading even the director’s office, and not just...

I do not disagree with the hon. Gentleman about attacking the culture. Having spent a lot of my professional life prosecuting for the Health and Safety Executive, I am perfectly conscious that one can come across examples of very bad safety culture, pervading even the director’s office, and not just...

I want to press the Minister on an important point. It would clearly be possible to prosecute a company for corporate manslaughter and at the same time for breaches of the 1974 Act, and to have a director in the dock for a breach of section 37. However, would the...

I want to press the Minister on an important point. It would clearly be possible to prosecute a company for corporate manslaughter and at the same time for breaches of the 1974 Act, and to have a director in the dock for a breach of section 37. However, would the...

To be clear, the idea put forward by the right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr. Denham) is achievable by the mechanism of section 37. It may require some tweaking—the Minister may tell me that it does not require very much tweaking—of the rules of procedure for bringing prosecutions. It...

To be clear, the idea put forward by the right hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr. Denham) is achievable by the mechanism of section 37. It may require some tweaking—the Minister may tell me that it does not require very much tweaking—of the rules of procedure for bringing prosecutions. It...

To make the position clear, my suggestion about the link-up was simply that it would allow the entire issue to be brought before one court if there was any doubt about it. That would go some way toward meeting the need for a director who was found culpable of a...

To make the position clear, my suggestion about the link-up was simply that it would allow the entire issue to be brought before one court if there was any doubt about it. That would go some way toward meeting the need for a director who was found culpable of a...