My recollection is that the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, is a graduate of Eton, so perhaps he knows more about it. Or perhaps I have got that wrong.

My recollection is that the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, is a graduate of Eton, so perhaps he knows more about it. Or perhaps I have got that wrong.

My noble friend Lord Borrie says that it is in law. The important thing, as I have said, is the public benefit test.

My noble friend Lord Borrie says that it is in law. The important thing, as I have said, is the public benefit test.

The noble Lord, Lord   Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, made the important point that we have sought to achieve a delicate balance in the Bill. That is exactly what we have tried to do. I have heard what my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours and others have said in setting out the rationale...

The noble Lord, Lord   Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, made the important point that we have sought to achieve a delicate balance in the Bill. That is exactly what we have tried to do. I have heard what my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours and others have said in setting out the rationale...

That is a rather broader question.

That is a rather broader question.

That is right; I offered a definition of religion, which holds good for this Bill as well.

That is right; I offered a definition of religion, which holds good for this Bill as well.

moved Amendment No. 7:"Page 3, line 3, at end insert—" ““(5A)   Any reference in any enactment or document (in whatever terms)— (a)   to charitable purposes, or (b)   to institutions having purposes that are charitable under charity law, is to be construed in accordance with subsection (1). (5B)   Subsection (5A)— (a)   applies whether the enactment or...

moved Amendment No. 7:"Page 3, line 3, at end insert—" ““(5A)   Any reference in any enactment or document (in whatever terms)— (a)   to charitable purposes, or (b)   to institutions having purposes that are charitable under charity law, is to be construed in accordance with subsection (1). (5B)   Subsection (5A)— (a)   applies whether the enactment or...

My Lords, to answer the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, first, they are not covering McColl points. I am grateful to the noble Lord for raising the point. As ever, the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, is, I am sure, trying to be helpful. I do not...

My Lords, to answer the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, first, they are not covering McColl points. I am grateful to the noble Lord for raising the point. As ever, the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, is, I am sure, trying to be helpful. I do not...

My Lords, I believed that this would be a lengthy discussion and I was not disappointed. I have listened very carefully to what my noble friend Lord Wedderburn and supporters of his amendments have said, and to other contributions during the course of the debate. It is important, not least...

My Lords, I believed that this would be a lengthy discussion and I was not disappointed. I have listened very carefully to what my noble friend Lord Wedderburn and supporters of his amendments have said, and to other contributions during the course of the debate. It is important, not least...

That may well be the case,   but I am not going to make that judgment this afternoon.

That may well be the case,   but I am not going to make that judgment this afternoon.

It is not for me to make that argument. It is for Animists to do that.

It is not for me to make that argument. It is for Animists to do that.

We covered the ground introduced through the amendment thoroughly in the previous debate. Those arguments hold good for this amendment, as they did for the earlier one. I do not accept that secularism, as opposed to theistic beliefs, has second-class status in terms of this piece of legislation. We see...

We covered the ground introduced through the amendment thoroughly in the previous debate. Those arguments hold good for this amendment, as they did for the earlier one. I do not accept that secularism, as opposed to theistic beliefs, has second-class status in terms of this piece of legislation. We see...

We return to the issue of independence. I thought we had already got ourselves to a good position during the debates on the Bill prior to the election, but I am not surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson has come back to this in another form, and I congratulate...

We return to the issue of independence. I thought we had already got ourselves to a good position during the debates on the Bill prior to the election, but I am not surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson has come back to this in another form, and I congratulate...

My Lords, I am delighted to respond to this amendment because, although I ultimately have to resist it, it is one that has usefully focused on an important part of the Charity Commission’s work. We certainly agree with the principle and the spirit behind the amendment; that is, that charities...

My Lords, I am delighted to respond to this amendment because, although I ultimately have to resist it, it is one that has usefully focused on an important part of the Charity Commission’s work. We certainly agree with the principle and the spirit behind the amendment; that is, that charities...

I think that the answer to the noble Lord’s question is ““No””, but I would like to set that out more clearly. Of course, I will as usual ensure that the letter is circulated to those who are interested.

I think that the answer to the noble Lord’s question is ““No””, but I would like to set that out more clearly. Of course, I will as usual ensure that the letter is circulated to those who are interested.

The Government introduced the community amateur sports scheme (CASC) as an alternative to charitable status for amateur sports clubs in 2002. As the noble Lord, Lord   Phillips of Sudbury, knows, it gives qualifying clubs many but not all of the tax reliefs that charities enjoy from both direct taxation and property...

The Government introduced the community amateur sports scheme (CASC) as an alternative to charitable status for amateur sports clubs in 2002. As the noble Lord, Lord   Phillips of Sudbury, knows, it gives qualifying clubs many but not all of the tax reliefs that charities enjoy from both direct taxation and property...

Clearly, the contents of the document would be taken into consideration if there were some form of legal challenge. The commission’s document makes it clear that it can carry out public benefit checks under the Bill as drafted. In describing how it would approach an apparent lack of public benefit...

Clearly, the contents of the document would be taken into consideration if there were some form of legal challenge. The commission’s document makes it clear that it can carry out public benefit checks under the Bill as drafted. In describing how it would approach an apparent lack of public benefit...

We have certainly had a   wide-ranging debate on this amendment, with support for the proposal made by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, coming from interesting quarters. The Bill requires, through Clause 4, the Charity Commission to publish guidance on the operation of the public benefit requirement. The public benefit requirement is...

We have certainly had a   wide-ranging debate on this amendment, with support for the proposal made by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, coming from interesting quarters. The Bill requires, through Clause 4, the Charity Commission to publish guidance on the operation of the public benefit requirement. The public benefit requirement is...

I am very much drawn to what the noble Lord, Lords Swinfen, had to say on this issue. The construction proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, might leave us in a less flexible situation and make it more difficult for the Charity Commission in certain circumstances. I am advised...

I am very much drawn to what the noble Lord, Lords Swinfen, had to say on this issue. The construction proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, might leave us in a less flexible situation and make it more difficult for the Charity Commission in certain circumstances. I am advised...

Before I get into the meat of the arguments that have been advanced in support of these two amendments, I ought first to issue a ““welcome back”” to everybody who has contributed to this Bill over the many hours, days, weeks and months that we considered it very carefully before...

Before I get into the meat of the arguments that have been advanced in support of these two amendments, I ought first to issue a ““welcome back”” to everybody who has contributed to this Bill over the many hours, days, weeks and months that we considered it very carefully before...

Perhaps the noble Lord will let me finish. I listened to the force of the argument made by the noble and gallant Lord. I want to reflect a little more on the first of his amendments, but I also wish to make   it plain that I will have to continue to...

Perhaps the noble Lord will let me finish. I listened to the force of the argument made by the noble and gallant Lord. I want to reflect a little more on the first of his amendments, but I also wish to make   it plain that I will have to continue to...