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Bill of Rights Bill 2022-23

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Motion, That this House has considered e-petition 619334, relating to legal rights to access abortion. Agreed to on question.

Lead member
Tonia Antoniazzi
Answering member
Edward Argar
Department
Ministry of Justice
Type
e-petition debates
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 cc205-252WH
House
House of Commons

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petition 619334, relating to legal rights to access abortion.

Thank you, Sir Graham, for being in the Chair today. It is very interesting being a member of the Petitions Committee. I have had the opportunity to lead e-petition debates in Westminster Hall on...

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c205WH
House
House of Commons

The hon. Member is making an important and powerful speech. Does she agree that it is extremely worrying that a member of public should feel that our rights are so under threat, and there is such a danger of us going down the same route as America, that they felt...

Member
Christine Jardine (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c206WH
House
House of Commons

That is so true, and I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution. This is what is so brilliant about petitions and about Caitlin wanting to make a difference and have her voice and those of over 150,000 heard, because we do not want that to happen here.

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c206WH
House
House of Commons

I am confused. The reality is that the conditions under which abortions are permitted are set out in statute law. They would require primary legislation to alter them. The petition appears to wish to hand the decisions to judges by establishing a right that will be interpreted by judges in...

Member
Desmond Swayne (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c206WH
House
House of Commons

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his contribution. I am not presenting my views per se; I am presenting the views of the petitioner, and I will go on to discuss how things would work. That is what we have to discuss. The petition presents a particular view and,...

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c206WH
House
House of Commons

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way. Is there not something fundamentally naive about a petition that attempts to juxtapose the legal system of the United Kingdom with the very different constitutional and legal system in the United States of America on the basis of fear, misinformation and media...

Member
Ian Jnr Paisley (Democratic Unionist Party)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c206WH
House
House of Commons

I fundamentally disagree with those comments. As a woman, to see what has happened in America does give me fear. I do not believe that there is a great amount of misinformation, but I do believe that where we get our information from—the hon. Gentleman raises a valid point—is very,...

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c206WH
House
House of Commons

The hon. Lady is incredibly generous in giving way. I applaud the tone in which she is presenting this case. The problem that some of us are grappling with is that, in America, what appears to have happened is that the Supreme Court had its political complexion changed and therefore...

Member
Julian Lewis (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 cc206-7WH
House
House of Commons

Again, that is a valid point that we can debate and discuss today. Does the policy being enshrined in a Bill of Rights actually work? Is that the political lever that is necessary? I do not necessarily believe that that is the case.

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c207WH
House
House of Commons

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I am very interested to hear what she has to say next. It is not the Opposition who are bringing forward a Bill of Rights, or claiming to do so—I am sure we will get into the issue of whether or not...

Member
Stella Creasy (Labour; Co-operative Party)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c207WH
House
House of Commons

I thank my hon. Friend for her comments. It is the Bill of Rights that is being discussed and brought forward that triggered Caitlin into wanting to protect women in this country, whether that happens or not. That is what I wish to discuss.

Abortion in Great Britain is still a...

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c207WH
House
House of Commons

In this crucial debate, what about women’s aftercare? We are talking about changing the law, and a number of my constituents are concerned that that would lead to abortion up until birth. We know that about 80% of women want the time limit reduced. Beyond that, what about the mental...

Member
Mary Glindon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c207WH
House
House of Commons

My hon. Friend makes a valid point about the aftercare of women who choose or choose not to have a termination. That is something

that I feel strongly about—it may be years down the line that someone needs that support, and that support is lacking. I agree with her on...

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 cc207-8WH
House
House of Commons

I actually think the hon. Member is absolutely right about the sheer compassion that this issue has to command. There were something like 800,000 pregnancies in the United Kingdom last year. I think that in the past seven or eight years 17 people have been brought up on the issue...

Member
Ian Jnr Paisley (Democratic Unionist Party)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c208WH
House
House of Commons

To be frank, we should have decriminalisation. I do not believe there should be one or two or that any woman should be made to feel like that—

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c208WH
House
House of Commons

How many?

Member
Ian Jnr Paisley (Democratic Unionist Party)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c209WH
House
House of Commons

It is very difficult. [Interruption.] The hon. Member knows that we will disagree but, fundamentally, the fact that we can have this debate is the most important thing. I have to move on because we just will not agree, but it is important that everybody’s views are heard.

A 15-year-old girl...

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c209WH
House
House of Commons

If this legal right to an abortion were to be introduced, would it allow a legal right to a sex-selective abortion as well?

Member
Chris Green (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c209WH
House
House of Commons

I do not read it like that. I think there is a better way forward. That is my personal opinion.

Member
Tonia Antoniazzi (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
28 November 2022
Reference
723 c209WH
House
House of Commons