Backbench debate on Thursday, 12 March 2015, in the House of Commons, led by John Baron. The answering member was Philip Dunne.

Defence Spending

Twenty-seventh backbench debate (part one). Motion that this House believes that defence spending should be set to a minimum of two per cent of GDP in accordance with the UK's NATO commitment. Agreed to on division (37 to 3).

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 594 cc428-487
Session: 2014-15
Department: Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee: House of Commons chamber
Related items: Towards the next Defence and Security Review: Part two: NATO. Defence Committee third report with formal minutes.
Tuesday, 22 July 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Towards the next Defence and Security Review: Part Two - NATO: Government response to the Committee's third report of session 2014-15. Defence Committee ninth special report.
Tuesday, 21 October 2014
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions: John Bercow | 594 c428 (Link to this contribution)
I will very likely want to impose some time limit, but I will make a judgment on that after the d...; John Baron | 594 cc428-9 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move,
That this House believes that defence spending should be set to a minimum of...; Jack Lopresti | 594 c429 (Link to this contribution)
While I disagree with my hon. Friend about misguided previous military engagements—I do not think...; John Baron | 594 c429 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend and I may disagree about whether our interventions were misguided, but he makes a ...; James Gray | 594 c429 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that two of the most chilling interventions in recent weeks have been, ...; John Baron | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)
I can only agree with my hon. Friend. The idea that British brigades would serve within American ...; Matthew Offord | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)
Like my hon. Friend, I am suffering from flu.
Does my hon. Friend agree that the interventi...; John Baron | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with my hon. Friend. One of the intended consequences of our misguided intervention in Ir...; John Bercow | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)
In deference to the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell), I t...; John Baron | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)
Whatever it is called, the glass of water is gratefully received.; Lord Beamish | 594 c430 (Link to this contribution)
Test it first.; John Baron | 594 cc430-1 (Link to this contribution)
If I go down, hon. Members will know why.
Falling defence budgets across NATO have embolden...; Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park | 594 c431 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech and I agree with every word he has said so far. If tre...; John Baron | 594 c431 (Link to this contribution)
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. That point is best encapsulated in the recent statistic f...; Julian Smith | 594 c431 (Link to this contribution)
I am sympathetic to many of my hon. Friend’s arguments, but does he not need to make it clear tha...; John Baron | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)
I agree that we inherited a financial shambles, as I have said many times before, but if we are p...; Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)
It may be worth reflecting on the fact that in 2010 we spent 2.5% of GDP, so considerable cuts ha...; John Baron | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)
I made the point earlier that defence spending as a percentage of GDP has been falling under this...; Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with the point that my hon. Friend makes about maritime patrol aircraft. It is urgent if ...; John Baron | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. and learned Friend makes a valid point.
With these major shortcomings in our ...; Richard Drax | 594 c432 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. If we see defence cuts of another 10% after the elect...; John Baron | 594 c433 (Link to this contribution)
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. He makes a very valid point, but time is pressing and thi...; Paul Flynn | 594 c433 (Link to this contribution)
I am following the hon. Gentleman’s speech with great admiration. He talks about banishing demons...; Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c433 (Link to this contribution)
Order. In fairness, Mr Flynn, you have just asked to be put on the speaking list. I want to hear ...; John Baron | 594 cc433-4 (Link to this contribution)
All I will say is that we can have our own opinions about those misguided interventions, or inter...; Dai Havard | 594 cc434-5 (Link to this contribution)
I would guess that many hon. Members will make contributions about the symbolism of the 2% target...; Bob Stewart | 594 c435 (Link to this contribution)
On urgent operational requirements, the key is in the wording. We do not necessarily have any ide...; Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c435 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Again, the hon. Gentleman wishes to speak later. Please keep something back. Do not use it...; Dai Havard | 594 c436 (Link to this contribution)
Obviously, yes, we will continue to need them. I am trying to make the point that this became the...; Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c436 (Link to this contribution)
That was a perfect example of taking up to 10 minutes. If we all stick to that, everybody will ge...; Rory Stewart | 594 cc436-7 (Link to this contribution)
I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr Havard) both for his service ...; Derek Twigg | 594 c437 (Link to this contribution)
Is not part of the problem of dealing with these threats having a strategy in the first place? Th...; Rory Stewart | 594 cc437-440 (Link to this contribution)
That is a fundamental point, so let me deal with it briefly. We need to work from the assumption ...; Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 cc440-1 (Link to this contribution)
We have heard three excellent speeches, and I found very little to disagree with in any of them, ...; John Glen | 594 c441 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady is making some characteristically wise observations, and I think we all agree about...; Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 cc441-2 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is right: it must be spent properly. The 2% commitment sends signals, and give...; Malcolm Rifkind | 594 c442 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly agree with what has just been said by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms St...; Richard Drax | 594 c442 (Link to this contribution)
May I counter that argument by saying that, with defence, if we cut ships, regiments or planes, w...; Malcolm Rifkind | 594 cc442-5 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend helps to take me to exactly the next point I was going to make. What also enabled ...; Jeffrey M Donaldson | 594 cc445-6 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to participate in this debate. I commend all who have spoken, especially the Cha...; Richard Drax | 594 c446 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening intently to the right hon. Gentleman’s excellent speech. Does he agree that we do ...; Jeffrey M Donaldson | 594 c446 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. The military charities play an important role i...; Mark Francois | 594 c447 (Link to this contribution)
Specifically on injured service personnel, I would like to give the House just one example of how...; Jeffrey M Donaldson | 594 c447 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate that. I have the greatest respect for the Minister and I know from our conversations...; 594 c447 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Lindsay Hoyle | 594 c447 (Link to this contribution)
I call Sir Menzies Campbell.
1 pm; Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 cc447-8 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am not sure whether to call you colonel on this occasion.
I...; Lord Beamish | 594 c448 (Link to this contribution)
It is a fact that in spring 2010 the Labour Government produced a Green Paper, which would have f...; Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 cc448-9 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is right about that. I know a bit about this because I was invited by the then...; Dai Havard | 594 c449 (Link to this contribution)
May I take the right hon. and learned Gentleman back a little to the defence and security review?...; Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 594 cc449-450 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a very sound point. I am sorry that I cannot give any commitments in rel...; Mark Hendrick | 594 c450 (Link to this contribution)
When the cold war ended in the early 1990s, the established view was that there would be a peace ...; Julian Lewis | 594 c451 (Link to this contribution)
In endorsing that important point, may I point out that, during the cold war in the 1980s, we wer...; Mark Hendrick | 594 c451 (Link to this contribution)
I was not aware of that fact, but I totally concur with the idea of spending anything up to 5%. A...; Derek Twigg | 594 c451 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a very good point about the continual use of the Air Force. That pressure on...; Mark Hendrick | 594 cc451-2 (Link to this contribution)
That is the point I am making. As I have said, we may soon be in a position where all our defence...; Peter Luff | 594 cc452-5 (Link to this contribution)
As for others who have spoken in this debate, it is likely that this will be my last debate in Pa...; Dai Havard | 594 c454 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is making an important point. The Defence Committee in reports in this Parliam...; Peter Luff | 594 cc454-6 (Link to this contribution)
I could not agree with the hon. Gentleman more strongly. That is the precise figure that I have i...; Paul Flynn | 594 cc456-8 (Link to this contribution)
It is a happy coincidence that this debate follows the statement on the Ebola crisis and what wil...; Richard Ottaway | 594 c458 (Link to this contribution)
I enjoyed listening to the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn). It is 32 years since I firs...; Julian Lewis | 594 c458 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot resist pointing out that the second name on the motion today, which is
“That this ...; Richard Ottaway | 594 cc458-9 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I can start again.
What is behind this debate, I think, is a fear of cuts. I congra...; Peter Luff | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)
May I clarify one important point of detail? Early-day motion 757 as originally printed referred ...; Richard Ottaway | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)
I used the figure of 20% for effect, rather than for any serious argument.
On the defence b...; Dai Havard | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?; Richard Ottaway | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)
I give way, for the last time.; Dai Havard | 594 c459 (Link to this contribution)
The Defence Committee produced a report in 2009 after we visited Russia because of the Georgian c...; Richard Ottaway | 594 cc459-460 (Link to this contribution)
I hang on every word of the reports of the Defence Committee. They are authoritative, powerful an...; Lord Soames of Fletching | 594 c460 (Link to this contribution)
Although I entirely agree with my right hon. Friend about the changing nature of warfare, does he...; Richard Ottaway | 594 cc460-1 (Link to this contribution)
There is no doubt about that, but the point that I and others make is that the threat is not stat...; Jim Shannon | 594 cc461-4 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Backbench Business Committee for giving us the opportunity to have this debate, and t...; Bernard Jenkin | 594 cc464-5 (Link to this contribution)
May I first remark upon the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash)? He...; Lord Redwood | 594 c465 (Link to this contribution)
Is it not also the case that if someone belongs to a club, they have to pay the subscription? We ...; Bernard Jenkin | 594 cc465-6 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, and it should not be forgotten that our subscription to the EU is also written into legislat...; 594 c466 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Baroness Primarolo | 594 cc466-7 (Link to this contribution)
Order. May I remind hon. Members that we need to conclude the debate by 3.30 pm to allow for the ...; Nick Harvey | 594 cc467-9 (Link to this contribution)
I start by apologising because, as I explained to Mr Speaker, a long-standing engagement elsewher...; Simon Reevell | 594 cc469-471 (Link to this contribution)
Last August, I was reminded of something that happened to me more than 25 years earlier. Back the...; Geoffrey Cox | 594 cc471-2 (Link to this contribution)
It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury (Simon Reevell), who has ...; Richard Drax | 594 cc472-5 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, have been awestruck by what I have heard this afternoon, not least the speech we have jus...; Bob Stewart | 594 c475 (Link to this contribution)
Twenty five years ago, we spent more than 4% of our gross national product on defence. There were...; Nigel Evans | 594 c475 (Link to this contribution)
As my hon. Friend knows, I back the minimum 2% spend of GDP on defence. He knows how important th...; Bob Stewart | 594 cc475-6 (Link to this contribution)
I was born close to Samlesbury, so I know it well. I certainly applaud that news.
Leaders o...; Julian Lewis | 594 cc476-8 (Link to this contribution)
Not for the first time, my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) has done...; Lord Beamish | 594 cc478-9 (Link to this contribution)
This has been a very good debate. We have heard 19 speeches from Members in all parts of the Hous...; James Gray | 594 c480 (Link to this contribution)
I know of the hon. Gentleman’s personal commitment to defence; he is passionate about it, as we a...; Lord Beamish | 594 c480 (Link to this contribution)
Well, what I am not being is dishonest, which is what the Government’s position is. I shall reite...; James Gray | 594 c480 (Link to this contribution)
The same as us.; Lord Beamish | 594 c480 (Link to this contribution)
No, it is not the same, because the Government and the hon. Gentleman have got the Chancellor of ...; Peter Luff | 594 cc480-1 (Link to this contribution)
I genuinely want this to be a bipartisan debate, but could the hon. Gentleman clarify the shadow ...; Lord Beamish | 594 c481 (Link to this contribution)
I know that the hon. Gentleman is not standing for re-election, but he needs to understand that t...; Simon Reevell | 594 c481 (Link to this contribution)
In passing, may I point out that the quotes recently attributed to me were not in fact mine? Is t...; Lord Beamish | 594 c481 (Link to this contribution)
Not at all, because I am actually on the hon. Gentleman’s side in trying to expose the Government...; Simon Reevell | 594 c482 (Link to this contribution)
This afternoon’s debate has been contributed to by a large number of people who put a belief in d...; Lord Beamish | 594 c482 (Link to this contribution)
I am a very thin-skinned individual, as people know, and I am wounded by the hon. Gentleman’s sug...; Simon Reevell | 594 c482 (Link to this contribution)
This is party politics.; Lord Beamish | 594 c482 (Link to this contribution)
Well, it might be party politics, but if I have exposed the inconsistency between what the Chance...; Philip Dunne | 594 cc482-3 (Link to this contribution)
This has been a timely debate, secured by my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (...; Lord Beamish | 594 c483 (Link to this contribution)
It is a sensible way forward to ensure, as I said in the debate last week, that every single piec...; Philip Dunne | 594 cc483-4 (Link to this contribution)
The only comfort that this House can take from the Opposition’s position is that one of the very ...; Lord Beamish | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Philip Dunne | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)
No, the hon. Gentleman has had his chance. The defence budget is in balance and our plans are aff...; Mark Hendrick | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister tell the House how much money was wasted in the Government’s decision to move t...; Philip Dunne | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, it cost just under £100 million to make that decision, which is substantially less than the ...; Lord Soames of Fletching | 594 c484 (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate Conservative Ministers on making such a tremendous improvement to the capital budg...; Philip Dunne | 594 cc484-5 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his advice. It is the case that vast majority of the headcount r...; Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 594 c485 (Link to this contribution)
Yesterday I suggested to the Prime Minister that he might be just a tad embarrassed by the fact t...; Philip Dunne | 594 cc485-6 (Link to this contribution)
I will come on to the issue of the 2% in a moment. We are not falling below it and we do not inte...; John Baron | 594 cc486-7 (Link to this contribution)
I want to thank all hon. Members for their contributions. There have been many good speeches here...
Subjects: Armed forces Defence Expenditure Ministry of Defence Standards Training NATO Cuts
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Defence Spending

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