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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Monday, 27 April 2009, in the House of Lords.

Postal Services Bill [HL]

Postal Services Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage fifth day. Clauses 36 to 60 agreed to, with clauses 37, 43, 48 agreed to as amended. Schedules 4 to 10 agreed to, with schedules 7 and 10 agreed to as amended. Bill reported with amendments (HL Bill 41 2008-09).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
710 c11-24, 48-75, 86-100 
Session
2008-09
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c15 (Link to this contribution) So, the Secretary of State is saying that the only thing that he can predict, the only certainty tha...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c17 (Link to this contribution) Clause 37: General universal service conditions Amendment 89F 89F: Clause 37, page 21, line 26, le...
Show all contributions (106)
Lord Mandelson | 710 c14-5 (Link to this contribution) I have already explained what Clause 36 does: it sets out when a service is within the scope of the ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c21 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89K 89K: Clause 37, page 21, line 41, leave out subsection (5)
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c21 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89H 89H: Clause 37, page 21, line 35, at end insert— "(3A) At any time when there is a po...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c21 (Link to this contribution) At this stage, I will. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 89G withdrawn.
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c20-1 (Link to this contribution) I fear that I am going to disappoint the noble Lord in providing the level of clarity that he is loo...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c21 (Link to this contribution) This is a simple probing amendment to clarify what effect subsection (5) has on the provisions earli...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c19 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his three questions. I do not know the specific answer to the question ab...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c11-2 (Link to this contribution) In an earlier debate, on Amendment 84A, I touched on our concern that Ofcom would be able to extend ...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we all extend our sympathy to the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, for the terrible injury t...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c59 (Link to this contribution) We are in complete agreement that nothing must put the USO at risk. That is agreed on all sides of t...
Lord Whitty | 710 c60 (Link to this contribution) I commend the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, for tabling the amendment. If the Secretary of State tells u...
Lord Whitty | 710 c67 (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as chair of Consumer Focus, which last year inherited the powers of Postwatch ...
Lord Razzall | 710 c62 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 95 95: After Clause 41, insert the following new Clause— "Investment fund for post office...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c63-6 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s comments and I share his joy. There must be communities all over the cou...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c63 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 95ZB. I want then to speak to Amendment 95 generally. All I am doing...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c24 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister will allow me, I will take that as praise for my having moved the amendment, because...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c22-3 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister. He will understand that I know the procedure for judicial review...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c22 (Link to this contribution) I have followed very carefully what the Minister has said, but I did not quite understand what he me...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c57 (Link to this contribution) While listening to the Minister, I was reminded of the need constantly to refer back to the excellen...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c57 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 93A 93A: Clause 40, page 23, line 34, at end insert— "( ) Regulations under subsection (5...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c56 (Link to this contribution) This amendment returns to the question of the basis on which the levy is to be imposed. I very much ...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89Q would require Ofcom to estimate from a benchmarking exercise the inefficiencies of the...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c55 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89Q 89Q: Clause 39, page 22, line 26, at end insert— "( ) In applying the method of calcu...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) I was hoping that the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, would open up a little more on who was responsible f...
Lord Razzall | 710 c50 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to various amendments in this group. I should assure the Committee that the reason for...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c50 (Link to this contribution) In speaking to the amendments, my noble friend has made clear what he is aiming to establish. It is ...
Baroness Fookes | 710 c71 (Link to this contribution) First, may I be clear that Amendment 95ZA is to be withdrawn?
Lord Hoyle | 710 c71 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I shall withdraw it. I shall take into account what my noble friend has said but I would still ...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c68-71 (Link to this contribution) Before I address the original amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, perhaps I may respond...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c68 (Link to this contribution) We feel strongly about this, but although we share the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, and...
Lord Razzall | 710 c74 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that a small amendment designed to protect the interests of the Minister's parents has re...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) This is a probing amendment to explore the effect of the transitional period and the regulatory regi...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c88 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for that clarification, which I would like to consider. In the me...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c87-8 (Link to this contribution) This amendment would restrict Ofcom’s power to impose general access conditions so that it can be ap...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c74 (Link to this contribution) Clause 44: General access conditions Amendment 95E 95E: Clause 44, page 25, line 34, leave out "th...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c97 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 9: Transitional provisions for Part 3 Amendment 101 101: Schedule 9, page 76, line 33, le...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) We agree with much of what the noble Lord, Lord Cotter, has said about the need for postal operators...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c94 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 96B (to Amendment 96A) 96B: After Clause 48, leave out lines 6 and 7
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lords, Lord Cotter and Lord De Mauley, have tabled amendments that would introduce a new c...
Lord Cotter | 710 c97 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, for his general support for our amendment. I do not think th...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 96ZE 96ZE: After Clause 48, insert the following new Clause— "Appeals under section 48: s...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c92 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 96ZC and 96ZD 96ZC: Clause 48, page 28, line 18, after "section" insert "(and with rules...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c89 (Link to this contribution) On the basis of my knowledge, I will address it now. My understanding is that, as the noble Lord rig...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) I have read the amendment and listened to the noble Lord’s questions. I would describe this as a "se...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c15 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89C 89C: Clause 36, page 21, line 15, leave out "in the opinion of OFCOM" and insert "OFC...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c15-6 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 89C and 89D add specific matters to what Ofcom must take into account before coming to th...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c15 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 89C and 89D look at the criteria by which Ofcom can consider a service to be interchangea...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c17 (Link to this contribution) This, has been another useful opportunity to look at the text of the Bill to scrutinise its effect. ...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c17-9 (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 89F, I shall speak also to Amendments 89H, 95B to 95D, 99, 100 and 103 to 109 st...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c13 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89B 89B: Clause 36, page 21, line 14, leave out "or" and insert "and"
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c19 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89G 89G: Clause 37, page 21, line 31, at end insert "(to the extent they provide such ser...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c19-20 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome the Minister’s words a few moments ago. The Committee would certainly find it ve...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c19 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for explaining these amendments. While we are looking at Clause 43, I ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c13 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the amendment was really to draw out of the Government what the Secretary of State ha...
Lord Mandelson | 710 c12-3 (Link to this contribution) Clause 36 sets out when a service is within the scope of the universal service. First, a service wit...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c60 (Link to this contribution) As I mentioned earlier when we were discussing this matter, I could not agree more that Royal Mail s...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c61 (Link to this contribution) Before the Secretary of State sits down, for the sake of clarity and because I am such a simple pers...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) It will be helpful to move to the more general proposition on the levy. I believe that this amendmen...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) I do not feel that I can comment on the quality of the drafting of the amendment. As I understand it...
Lord Razzall | 710 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) In view of the sympathy shown to me by several noble Lords, it is perhaps appropriate to disclose th...
Lord Razzall | 710 c59 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 94 94: After Clause 41, insert the following new Clause— "Borrowing from capital markets ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c60 (Link to this contribution) I was tempted to keep quiet, but the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, has given an opening to people like m...
Lord Cotter | 710 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend and colleague Lord Razzall in his amendment. He rightly said that we see t...
Lord Razzall | 710 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) This is probably the most fundamental amendment that we have moved from these Benches. Those noble L...
Lord Razzall | 710 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. I wish to make two points. First, the overall point I was ma...
Lord Hoyle | 710 c63 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 95ZA (to Amendment 95) 95ZA: After Clause 41, page 3, after "until" insert "the condition...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c23-4 (Link to this contribution) Our amendments in this group are intended to ensure that postal operators providing services outside...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c24 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that that amendment probes a number of areas, some of which I ...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c22 (Link to this contribution) I was just trying to surprise the noble Lord. My point was that it is an unpredictable date. The pur...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c23 (Link to this contribution) Clause 38: Recovery of administrative charges incurred by OFCOM Amendment 89L 89L: Clause 38, page...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hoyle, again for his continuing support in defence of our wonderful Pos...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c51-4 (Link to this contribution) I, too, was rather hoping that the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, would reveal all, but that is perhaps s...
Lord Razzall | 710 c71 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that lengthy reply. As I explained, this is a probing amendment and, as I i...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, for raising this point. As he may not be aware, I have parents...
Lord Razzall | 710 c72 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 95A 95A: Before Clause 42, insert the following new Clause— "Charges made by national pro...
Lord Razzall | 710 c72 (Link to this contribution) On the face of it, the amendment is rather general and is not dissimilar from what the noble Lord, L...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c98-9 (Link to this contribution) The eerily entitled Amendment 101—I believe that is where one is presented with one’s worst fears—is...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c100 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has provided clarity and reassurance. I would now like carefully to consider all the po...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c100 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 103 to 109 103: Schedule 10, page 82, line 34, at end insert— "26A In section 95 (power ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c88 (Link to this contribution) Clause 45: Consumer protection conditions Debate on whether Clause 45 should stand part of the Bill...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c75 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for his clarification, which I will carefully consider. In the me...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c75 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord says, the amendment would reduce or limit Ofcom’s ability to impose access conditi...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c86-7 (Link to this contribution) Our amendment explores the situations when a general access condition might be imposed. It appears f...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c86 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 95F 95F: Clause 44, page 26, line 1, after "them" insert "that the postal operator has si...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c74 (Link to this contribution) Clause 43: Essential conditions Amendments 95B to 95D 95B: Clause 43, page 25, line 23, leave out ...
Lord Cotter | 710 c94 (Link to this contribution) The amendment deals with appeals. The Bill follows the revision of common rules for postal services,...
Lord Cotter | 710 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 96A 96A: After Clause 48, insert the following new Clause— "Appeals to the Competition Ap...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c97 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 96B. Amendment 96B (to Amendment 96A) withdrawn. Amendment 96C (...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c97 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 7: Enforcement of regulatory requirements Amendments 99 and 100 99: Schedule 7, page 59, ...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c91-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move Amendment 96ZB. In doing so, I will also speak to the other amendments in the group st...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c90 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 96ZA 96ZA: Before Clause 47, insert the following new Clause— "Separation for accounting ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c89 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister, but he has not quite answered the point about what consultation has t...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c88-9 (Link to this contribution) This is another example of getting the balance right in the distribution of responsibilities and pow...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c91 (Link to this contribution) Clause 48: Appeals against price control decisions Amendment 96ZB 96ZB: Clause 48, page 28, line 1...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c91 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister, particularly for the assurance he has given about the response to the...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c90 (Link to this contribution) The amendment seeks to address a concern that was raised by the Select Committee in the other place ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c11 (Link to this contribution) Clause 36: Services within scope of the universal postal service Amendment 89A 89A: Clause 36, pag...
Lord De Mauley | 710 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) Although the amendment draws an important distinction between courier services and postal services, ...
Lord Carter of Barnes | 710 c21-2 (Link to this contribution) Securing the provision of the universal service is, as we have discussed on a number of amendments, ...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c49-50 (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 89N, I shall also speak to Amendments 89P and 93B. Amendment 89N is straightforw...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c13-4 (Link to this contribution) Having dealt with paragraph (b), I turn to the interaction between that paragraph and paragraph (c)....
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 710 c48 (Link to this contribution) Clause 39: Review of costs of universal service obligation Amendment 89N 89N: Clause 39, page 22, ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 710 c75 (Link to this contribution) Our amendment in this group again looks at the scope of Ofcom's powers. Clause 44 gives the regulato...
EC documents
DIR97/67/EC; DIR2008/06/EC
Subjects
Compensation Consumers Appeals Disadvantaged Audit Costs Bank services Business Closures Competition Correspondence Borrowing Finance Fees and charges EU law Investment Private sector Low incomes Protection Public sector Post offices Prices Postal services Parcels Ofcom Postal Services Commission Post Office Standards Regulation Royal Mail Universal service obligation
Legislation
Postal Services Bill (HL) 2008-09
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk